Right, there you are then...
See, the aforementioned person shot in the back several times by the London police was an innocent bystander! Oops! Instead of a bombing suspect, he just happened to be a random brown person (Brazilian in this case). He just happened to be running from police because he had an expired visa. Well, I guess they showed him! Remind me to make sure all of my papers are in order next time I head over there! You'll also be glad to know that police have said this will not change their new policy of 'shoot to kill.' I feel safer already...PS - And to all the folks who justify the shooting with whatever b.s. excuse, you are wrong, you are the ones handing a victory to the terrorists. You are willing to allow innocent people to be killed to give yourself a false sense of security (this false sense of security can only be obtained by white Britons, though, as anyone with darker skin now has to worry about being shot 8 time in the back) and you are willing to take away certain freedoms/liberties/rights in the name of security. Sorry, that's how fascism starts. You make excuses when your not the one being shot, but next time it may be your turn.
posted by AngryYoungMan @ 6:35 AM
14 Comments:
Wrong, wrong, wrong.
Here we have a person who was leaving a suspected "safe house" that was under surveillance, who was wearing a thickly-padded coat, who, when challenged by the police, fled instead of stopped, who ran into an Underground station and jumped on a train while being pursued by police... what did he (and you) expect? How were his actions any different from a REAL terrorist bomber?
This idiot... yep, that's right, IDIOT!!!... died because he was stupid, stupid, STUPID!
News flash: London has suffered from two, count 'em, TWO! terrorist bomber attacks this month. Wanna bet whether the terrorists will try a third time? Wanna bet that the police are especially anxious to avoid another bombing and the deaths of dozens of innocents... and will be very quick to act accordingly against anyone who looks and ACTS like a terrorist bomber?
Anyone who is challenged by the police, especially when they are carrying submachineguns openly which is something that RARELY happens in London, had better stop and explain things. Hey, if you're wearing a padded coat, or a backpack, and you don't want the police to find out your visa is expired, or you have a bag of grass stashed on you, then DON'T TAKE THE SUBWAY!
If this HAD been a homicide bomber and the police HADN'T shot him, he would have killed dozens as he blew himself up. This guy met EVERY identifiable criteria of a terrorist bomber except that he didn't have a bomb on him. Don't want the greyhounds to chase you? Don't look and act like a rabbit!
I don't blame the police. I blame the dead visa violator. HE is the one who decided that avoiding arrest for his expired visa was worth the risk of possible death. He made a bet. He lost. Oops.
Bet he won't do THAT again... and I bet other would-be idiots are going to stop when challenged by the police.
So you justify that innocent people might be killed only because some terrorists think they can explode bombs at will?
Poor idiot - those terrorists already got you.
No, I justify what happened as misadventure... or as we Americans say, "Shit happens."
Menezes (the Brazilian who was killed) wasn't shot because terrorists explode bombs. He was shot because every single thing he did, from his choice of clothing to his choice to flee to his choice to run into the subway, met the profile of a homicide bomber who was looking for martyrdom.
The lesson here is, don't act like a terrorist if the police approach. And second, don't handicap the police because some idiot basically forced them into choosing, in a split second, to either face the deaths of dozens of Londoners or kill the idiot.
If you don't understand this, then you are an idiot and the terrorists will win because you lack the will to defend yourself, and the courage to make hard decisions.
Well John, maybe all 'idiots' should just be shot right now to save the police the trouble of having to think before they shoot someone in the back (who was, by all acounts, all ready down and disabled). It's all fine and good to 'smart' people like you from the warm confines of their living room, you don't have to go to this guys funeral, or miss him for the rest of your life, just because he got scared and ran. God forbid you ever find yourself in crazy circumstances, make a poor choice, and end up dead, only to have jackasses half the world away comment on how you got what you deserved because you were such an idiot. Why don't you give sympathy and compasion a try and think long and hard about the circumstances surrounding this poor man's death and the no-win situation the 'shoot to kill' policy puts the London police in...
they wouldn't have killed that dood if he was a pasty white chap. full stop.
Sure they would have. If it was a white guy coming out of a house under surveillance for terrorism, dressed in the thick padded coat, and running from the police, he would have gotten the same lead poisoning as that poor Brazillian man.
Accidental shootings DO happen. Police have to make life-or-death choices in a split second. And with all this terrorist crap, it makes their jobs even harder. They were wrong to shoot him. But it was a justifiable accident.
I don't think it was in any way justifiable. But then I'm just an "idiot" European (and from "old Europe") with centuries of stupid wars and conflicts as historical background.
Terrorist acts never will be solved by applying more violence cutting civil rights and killing somebody just because he's got a padded jacket and runs from the police.
Wake up, man!
Why are you U.S. Americans so paranoid? Frightened somebody might come and take away what you stole before?
i find that seriously hard to believe.
an intregal part of the "profile" the police use is whether or not a person looks south asian or arabic (i.e., muslim).
allow me to pose the following scenario...an 80 yr old white granny in a padded coat comes out of said house, and shuffles as fast as she can from the police...do u think they'd shoot?
what about a 30 yr old white woman? (padded coat, etc)
pretty hard to imagine, right?
it gets a little easier with a guy, but i still seriously doubt that they would have chased a white dude down like that.
and if they HAD, there would be protests in the street across the UK, you better belee dat!!!
my comment above was referring to rvampyr's comment...
but rolandmex, while i agree about the killing not being justifiable, i don't think that as a european you are in any moral position to wag yr finger at those who are "paranoid" about losing what they stole, seeing as how over the centuries no one has excelled at thievery like europe.
Word, I love Europe and Europeans, but who do you think taught us how to act, how to steal, how to repress, how to exploite? I do hate when Europeans accuse us, because their history is even bloodier, their deeds even worse (holocaust, inquisition, two world wars, the slave trade, the crusades, etc.). Let's not play the blame game, let's work to fix it...
totally.
Hey... I do empathize with Menezes' family.... but I also empathize with the families of drunken drivers who kill themselves in needless, stupid accidents. Empathy doesn't change the fact that the person who died made wrong choices.
And, you're right about the no-win situation facing the London police. If they shoot a man who, by all objective measures, exactly matches the profile of a homicide bomber except for the fact that he is instead a fleeing Brazilian illegal immigrant, they're widely condemned for overreacting. If they don't shoot a man who, by all objective measures, exactly matches the profile of a homicide bomber and just happens to be one and who blows himself and dozens of others up, they're widely condemned for not acting forcefully enough.
Menezes made a series of poor choices that led to his death, and for that he is responsible. However, the real responsibility for creating the environment that forced the police to kill Menezes rather than accept the risk of giving a probable homicide bomber the chance to detonate himself lies with the terrorists, who disguise themselves as innocent civilians so they can go freely among us and kill us. If it weren't for the terrorists attacks then Menezes would still be alive. Instead, by their cowardly tactics, which is why terrorists do not have the same legal protections as enemy combatants and may be summarily executed, they force the authorities to choose between extreme measures (such as 'shoot to neutralize' any suspected bomber) or abject surrender.
Re "old Europe" lecturing America... is this the same old Europe that started the two bloodiest wars in world history, that needed America to come in, twice, at great financial and human expense, and set things straight so you'd stop slaughtering each other, that saw the establishment of two of the three bloodiest regimes in world history (and sponsored the establishment of the bloodiest -- China)? I'd say old Europe needs the occasional "jackass" to point out the obvious and to take them off their rhetorical high horses. You certainly need us when it comes to saving you from your neighbors.
Also, since this dude made it onto the train, the policy was a clear failure anyway. If the man was a 'homocide bomber' (to use FoxNewsSpeak), he would have already blown the fuckin' train up by the time the police got to him. This was simply a reactionary execution, a la Italy in '26 or Argentina in '76. You see the failures of allowing for people to be summarily executed throughout history because it is a power that will always go awry or be abused. No one should ever be denied a trial if at all possible, and this man clearly could have been taken alive at the time. The police in London have not been trained well enough to handle this awesome power that has been given to them, and a dead brazilian electrician is just the first piece of evidence against the policy...
I'd never cut it as a cop - that's clear.
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